Capture This Photography
Fox and Pup
Posted by Laurie (New Jersey, United States) on 19 May 2009 in Animal & Insect and Portfolio.
Times like this are when I wish I had a longer telephoto lens. I shot this mama fox and her pup (aka kit, or cub) in the Great Swamp a few Mondays ago. It was getting late, just a little before 7PM, and I was on my way out of the park when I saw them. I did crop the image quite a bit.
I'm debating whether or not it is worth it to get a longer lens or a 2x teleconverter and a lens upgrade. Since I don't do enough of this kind of shooting I cannot justify spending the big bucks on larger 200-400mm zoom telephoto lens so I am considering upgrading my Tokina 80-200mm f2.8 (non VR) lens to the Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VR lens and getting a Nikon 2x teleconverter. I know there are some drawbacks to the teleconverter but I still think it might be the way to go, and I think it is the most reasonable option for me and the way I shoot.
The Tokina 80-200mm f2.8 I have now is a fine lens and it is one of my "workhorse" lenses but I would have preferred to get the Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VR. I got the Tokina in 2006 because I needed to outfit myself with a few Nikon mount lenses quickly when I switched from Olympus and Minolta cameras to Nikon. The Tokina was a very nice lens and very affordable. I am now thinking that it might be worth it to invest in the Nikon lens with the VR now. Decisions, decisions. I've been having this debate with myself for a couple of months now.
For a more detailed higher resolution view go here.
See my new SLIDESHOW page.
Your comments are very much appreciated. I know how much time and effort it takes to visit and leave comments. I really do appreciate them.
I make every effort to reply to questions but sometimes I miss one or two and I apologize for that. If you really need me to get an answer to you quickly, the best way is to use the CONTACT button at the bottom of the page.
I post the same photos here as on Capturethisphotography.com but they are higher res. and landscape orientation shots are larger size.
I post only on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
Hidalgo from Herunen, Finland
So cute photo. Mama is taking care of pup with love.
19 May 2009 8:06am
MadScientist from Düsseldorf, Germany
Very lovely!
According to my experience, once you have a new lens with new capabilities, you'll use it and extened your visual language. But I know this feeling, I'm also a bit unassertive when it comes to spending big money on technical devices. :-)
19 May 2009 8:44am
Craig from Vacaville, California, United States
The photo makes a great post! You caught a tender moment in nature. I can appreciate your dilemma so I'll throw my two sense in. I hate my 70 - 400 because of the weight and expense. But, I love it because of the performance. I loved my 2 X teleconverter because of the cost. But, I was always disappointed in the performance. I agree with MadScientist. If you build "the road" you will "drive" it! Good luck Laurie!
19 May 2009 9:20am
Giovanni from Milan, Italy
Wow, wonderful capture Laurie! I wouldn't buy a 200-400mm if you think that you are going to use it twice a year. The 70-200 is a fantastic lens and the teleconverter option seems very reasonable. I have been told that the 1.7 TC has better performance than 2x TC.
19 May 2009 9:24am
Ron from Saint Louis, United States
It's such a joy to stumble upon opportunities like this ... makes one appreciate the gifts that photography brings into our lives ... love the interaction, here, between Mama (Papa) and pup -- as if it's being prepared for a pic and then a lesson in early evening hunting. I have a Canon 2X extender and use it primarily with my 70 - 200mm ... I like having it in my bag, but it does have its limits/drawbacks ... focusing is a bit slower and you lose a few stops ... but for the money, I'm glad I have it! I caught this with my extender on the lens.
19 May 2009 10:15am
Monte Stevens from Westerville, United States
I love this image because of the intimate story in nature. And, not too bad for being a cropped image and shot at ISO 1000. I've owned two Nikon 80-400mm VR lens and loved them both. I dropped the first one while on a trip to the Smoky Mountains, not suggested. The price is less in than the 70-200m. However, the 70-200mm will work on portraits, street photography as well as wildlife. As I travel so much I use the Nikon 70-300mm VR lens and am quite happy with it. The faster 70-200mm will not hunt as much as the others and offers more artistic options with the DOF. I guess the real solution is to buy both. Do you have a child or husband you could sell? :-)
19 May 2009 11:37am
@Monte Stevens: LOL...No one would buy my kids...they are way toooo expensive! One is currently in college and the other one is getting very close to that age. The 3rd is grown and on his own.
LOL...my husband is pretty used after nearly 25 years so I'm not sure what I could get for him :D
I love my current 80-200mm f2.8. I use it constantly especially on assignments. The only problem with it is that while I think it is really good quality especially for the price, the Nikon is far better and the VR is a nice added feature that my current lens doesn't have. My current lens is a bit noisy compared to the Nikon as well which can matter under some circumstances.
I am definitely leaning toward getting the upgraded 70-200mm f2.8 VR and going with the tele-converter from the more pragmatic aspect. I really use the 80-200 a lot. It is one of 2 lenses that are always with me.
dobbino from Cape Town, South Africa
Well - if the Nikon lens will give you better results than this, then you will be lucky! Of all the photos from full frame cameras posted on Am3, I must say that, for me, the ones from your D700 are by far my favourite. And that's with your existing lenses. I would probably rather use the cash for the 200-400 lens, but that's just me.
19 May 2009 12:02pm
shoti from Everywhere in the, Philippines
wonderful moment captured! priceless! and the composition and colors are great! perfect! :D
19 May 2009 2:51pm
Anita from West Nottingham, United States
Good job taking this photo. I have no wisdom to offer re. lenses, as i don't have any longer that my 105mm macro. Photography is an expensive hobby, isn't it?
19 May 2009 3:10pm
Viewfinder from Bradenton, FL, United States
How great to get the privilege of witnessing this in real time; to see this online is thrill enough. Well-done!
19 May 2009 3:42pm
Steve Rice from Olympia, United States
Excellent image. The lens issue is a tough one. I've been having the same sorts of questions.
19 May 2009 3:53pm
Michael Rawluk from Williams Lake, BC, Canada
I have been having that same lens debate. I am almost ready to go buy one.
Very nice shot of mother and babe. It is always so gratifying to get a shot like that.
19 May 2009 4:58pm
Ti from Alpharetta, United States
I'm glad you've joined the "dark side". :-) If you are not familiar with Nikonian then you definitely want to join and register for free to become a member. I've been a member since 2003 and had learned soooo much about everything Nikon. You can buy and sell from members, borwse all kinds of forums (secured with moderators) from technicals, techniques, shooting styles, lenses, etc., once you're hooked you will never stop reading..It's a extreamly friendly community with many pros eager to help, and you don't see people using harsh language at all (moderator will step right in and close the thread if that ever happen).
But, back to your question... I tried 70-200mm VR, sharp, fast but heavy, and the VR not as effective as my 70-300mm VR, which is more than 1/3 the price of the 70-200mm VR. My 70-300mm is my most used lens simply because my shooting style - birds and distant objects. I have a 1.7TC but hardly use it because it slow me down, both in focus speed and stops, which are what I need most at 300mm range. I would suggest to borrow or rent a 70-300mm VR (or both, if you've not tried 70-200mm VR before) for couple of days and play with it and see if you like it, then go from there. Most importnatly, read thru the Nikonian forums, this question has been posted numerous times and I can tell you at the end, it all depends on what you "need" and not what you "want".... :-)
Enjoy!
19 May 2009 5:41pm
@Ti: LOL...I actually was a member of Nikonians when I got my D200 in 2006. I think my membership has long since expired. I remember getting an email a while back stating as much. I actually had a rather negative experience with them. At the time I had issues with my new D200...they acted like I was a blasphemer when I said that I thought it was a problem with the camera. Long story short it turned out there was an issue with the camera. But even after the problem was resolved they still insisted that it was still probably me and not the camera. It was most definitely the camera. A subsequent firmware update corrected the issue as it became more prevalent in more units. At any rate that experience of being trounced on and being treated like I blasphemed the God Nikon left a rather bad taste in my mouth. So I stopped going there. There was no harsh language but I was definitely treated in a very belittling manner and snide sarcastic comments were made. It was interesting because I got some private messages from other members who had been treated the same way as I had over similar issues and they were afraid to speak up on my thread out of fear of getting trounced upon themselves so they sent me private messages instead. So I just let the membership expire. They still send me the newsletter though. The Tokina 80-200mm f2.8 I have is a tank...very heavy just a few grams lighter than the Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 with the VR. I need a fast lens like the 80-200mm f2.8 because I most often use it during concerts and other events where flash is not permitted or just inappropriate. That was my main reason for upgrading to hte D700. I was shooting at ISO 1600 constantly with the D200 and the high ISO performance with the D700 blows the D200 away. The 80-200mm f2.8 is the perfect focal length for those assignments. I rarely need more than that but it would be nice. :) So since I would like the best of both, and using the tele-converter will only lose 2 stops making the f2.8 an f4.6 I can live with that. I am considering the 1.7x converter because I've read that it is a bit sharper than the 2x and only loses 1.5 stops...if memory serves...lol...I'm suffering information overload! How fast is the 70-300mm? I need an f2.8 because often even at ISO 3200 I'm shooting wide open to f2.8 for the proper exposure. I can shoot to ISO 6400 with results as good as my D200 on ISO 1600 but prefer to shoot at ISO 3200. I am considering renting a few different lenses and comparing them. I'm on a fact finding mission for now...lol. The hunt is half the fun!
Ti from Alpharetta, United States
Sorry to hear you had bad experience with Nikonian. I let my paid Silver membership passed for a year (I needed it so I could post in buy & sell forums) and they sent me a email given me a deadline to renew. I didn't so they closed my account and I couldn't even log on as a free member to view other forums. I couldn't register with my old name as a free member because it was already taken (by me), so I ended up paid the Silver again for another year. It's a good knowledge vault if you know what you're looking for, and a good buying and selling place with more trusted people (although deals do go sour sometime..).
Well, if you shoot mainly in low light or indoor condition then forget about 70-300mm VR, it will not give you what you want and it hunts quite a bit under low light condition, but it's quite good for outdoor shooting.
Now you'rer making me itching about D700! :-) But I can't justify to buy another beyond my D40x and D200...but it's good to learn its ability to handle higer ISO, I'll definitely keep that in mind when I won the lottery! :-)
19 May 2009 7:02pm
@Ti: It's ok...I still go over and check out reviews and "lurk" every few months...lol. I think they actually did away with free memberships because that was what I had when I got the email telling me it was going to expire. The D700 is wonderful. So worth the money. It has made a world of difference with what I am able to do when I am working. But I did spend one entire assignment to pay for it!!! Yikes!
k@ from Paristanbul*, France
UNIQUE ! I admire it with a smile in my eye - thanks for sharing such rare moments of wild happy life !
19 May 2009 7:31pm
Claude from United States
So cute!!! And you were so lucky to be there at the right moment. Just wondering why you did not crop the foreground - I don't go for the out-of-focus look.
19 May 2009 7:53pm
@Claude: I had already cropped it a lot...so I could not crop it any more. I shot wide open which causes the narrow DoF particularly with a lens at 200mm. I suppose it is a matter of taste. I prefer shallow DoF. When I am shooting something like this I like to separate it from the background and foreground with a narrow DoF so most often I will shoot with a narrow DoF. If I was shooting a landscape of course I would choose differently. It is trickier to shoot this way but That is how I like to shoot subjects separated from their surroundings. I also was shooting in fairly low light and knew that I was going to have to crop it. Even with a wider aperture this lens has a fairly narrow DoF at that distance and at 200mm. You will notice I am a fan of narrow DoF, that is my style of shooting.
Lesley from Lincoln, United States
Love it!!! How fortuitous to not only see these beautiful creatures, but to capture such a sweet shot. Well done, Laurie!
19 May 2009 8:27pm
MaryB from Staffordshire, United Kingdom
What a sweet moment you've captured here Laurie :)
19 May 2009 10:43pm
Sugata from Newark, United States
This is such a lovely capture! The pup is so cute!
20 May 2009 12:02am
Jason Kravitz from Brussels, Belgium
awe - cute capture !
I saw your comment to John about Drobo... I've been debating buying a drobo after seeing a convincing demo at Photokina... then after some research, I am kind of on the fence as there seems to be some mixed reviews and data loss. I guess as with any back-up strategy, redundancy is key - a drobo plus 2nd hard drive or online backup is probably a good plan.
20 May 2009 2:39am
@Jason Kravitz: Yeah I hear you...I was actually just looking into Mozy.com as well. I cannot seem to make up my mind what the best course is. I'm afraid to keep putting it off though.
One from Açores, Portugal
What wonderful capture, very difficult, congratulations !
20 May 2009 3:24am
Paco Díaz from Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Good one, I like the color and the pair of friends together.
20 May 2009 4:41am
Betty from New Jersey, United States
A beautiful moment to see, and so lucky to capture!
20 May 2009 9:49am
Ronnie 2¢ from London, United Kingdom
Interesting debate to go with this sweet little shot. You make a strong case for going for the f/2.8 although I have some doubts about the TC and whether y'd use it much . . best to buy into that later, I'd say.
20 May 2009 10:16am
leopoldin from granada, Spain
Un gran momento que conseguste captar enhorabuena y que envidia sana me has dado precioso
20 May 2009 4:05pm
Taitt Photography from Chicago, United States
There is an Old barn in Michigan,Central Michigan at that.
As I sometimes pull onto the road,the Foxes seem to roam about all the time.
About the time though I actually see them,grab my camera,POOF...they are gone.
Lovely shot..
20 May 2009 8:13pm
Andrew Gould from Sydney, Australia
Well done with the shot, regardless of technical difficulties. It's a bit like what I'd say with people photos: you've caught the moment, and that's what counts. It seems that you're going to go for a stabilizer lens, and from my own experience, I wouldn't be without that in a new long zoom.
21 May 2009 10:27pm
jamesy from christchurch, New Zealand
what a great shot well captured. loved your answer to Monte about the hubbie and the kids
24 May 2009 8:30am
JamesC from portland, United States
Wonderful shot, like it the way it is already. I can understand the frustration of lens buying addiction!
25 May 2009 3:37am
Volodia from Mississauga, Canada
o wow...that's an amazing capture, very well done.
4 Jun 2009 6:55pm
Ricardo from Valencia, Venezuela
Wow! incredible image! you captured an amazing moment! sweet!
14 Jun 2009 9:01am
Dawn Del Guercio from Dover, United States
Oh.. I am sooo sorry that I didn't get down to the Great Swamp while these guys were around. I heard about it from the volunteer group, which I am a part of. I LOVE this type of shot, and though currently own the lovely, quite sharp Nikon 70-300VR, I would love something longer. Unfortunately the 70-300 is also a 4.5 (?) so, adding a teleconverter is going to really limit it's light intake... I don't know if it will be worth it.
15 Jun 2009 3:50pm
@Dawn Del Guercio: Thanks...I finally solved my dilemma with the lenses. I ended up going with the upgrade to the Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR and the 2x telconverter. It does slow down the lens a little to an f/5.6. The Nikon 80-400mm is an f/4.5-5.6 VR and I tried it out but was not that impressed with it. Since my 70-200mm f2.8 is such an important lens for me and is one of, if not the most often used lens in my bag I chose the combo with the teleconverter to give me the extra 200mm. So far it has worked out really well, but it was a significant investment. I haven't posted from it yet but have one queued to post in a few days. I have more to put up in due time. I have a huge backlog of images at the moment. Here is a preview of one of the images in queue. If you put a 2x converter on the 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 you will lose an additional 2 stops of light perhaps from the f/5.6 (not sure though but at least from the f4.5). That could be significant. You could try the 1.4x or the 1.7x but you will still lose at least 1 stop of light with the 1.4x and 1.5 stops with the 1.7x. My advice would be to go to a good dealer and try the different combinations to see what might work best for you. I am very happy with my decision but it fits my style of shooting best and may not be what you are looking for and need.
Angela Anderson-Cobb from Detroit, United States
What a beautiful capture of one of my favorite animals.
18 Jun 2009 4:10am
Nikon D700
1/160 second
F/2.8
ISO 1000
200 mm